An Insider’s Look at a Life Coaching Engagement

How does a Life Coaching engagement go?  What do you talk about?  What do you work on?

As Kristen Hadeed opens up, you get an insider’s look at what working with a life coach looks like.  We talk about the life coaching work we did together: core values, beliefs, focusing on what matters, where the fear is, our relationships with loved ones.

[TRANSCRIPT]:

Kristen   00:01

I am so excited for today. We are having a conversation with the amazing Paul Strobl. Show us where you are. Oh, get ready everybody for this because Paul, without question, has made such a profound difference in my life, and in the person that I’ve become, the human I’ve become and the leader I become.

Paul was one of my very first life coaches and he helped me a lot in the area of self-awareness, and really beginning to look inside to connect, how that may impact the way that we show up on the outside and so today we’re going to go on a journey of what did our work look like together?

What were some of the really big challenges were that we tackled in our life coaching work together, and what can you take from this journey and apply it to you on your own?

So, we’ll start with how we met and called. I’d love to pass it to you first. Do you remember our first call? What was your impression? Do you remember how I reached out to you? I had to think back, is it a little fuzzy? So, I’d like to hear what your remember.

How We Met 

Paul   01:18

What I remember is you were in Houston, and you googled life coaching and you found me even though at the time I’m not sure if I was in Argentina or Bulgaria at that moment, but yeah, I work with people in Houston.

All of these years I designed my business to be tethered to Houston and so you found me online in Houston. And we had a trial session and I treat that just like every other trial session I look at it as a mutual interview to kind of see whether or not we connect, and I really test the person to see “is this person really ready for a change? Are they willing to get uncomfortable?”

I do remember poking and prodding that first session, and you didn’t really squirm. You were ready to get uncomfortable, which is the most important thing if you’re going to start life coaching, isn’t it?

 

Kristen   02:17

Yeah, and I’m laughing because you’re right that I Googled you so, here’s my side of it. A friend of mine asked me if I knew a coach that I could recommend for her. So, I started looking up coaches for her, and then I read these different websites. I was like “I want to coach.” So, then I Googled coaches in Houston, and I remember your life coaching website because I remember it was like a hot air balloon with bricks falling out of the basket. Is that right?

 

Paul   02:49

They were meant to be sandbags. But bricks are fine *laughs*

 

Kristen   02:53

Got yeah, sandbags—and I remember that moment in my life. When I saw that picture, I took a deep breath and I was like, what is that? And I think what it felt like at that time in my life is I felt heavy, like there was something weighing me down and I wasn’t sure what it was.

I really wanted to explore that, and I think now knowing what I know about the journey ahead, maybe it was wrestling with the Student Maid decision. And like, knowing that something fell out of alignment in my life, and not being really sure what it was. So just seeing that image, it inspired me to reach out to you and then we had our first call, and then we ended up working together for over a year.

So, before we dive into our work, tell us your story of becoming a life coach, because this isn’t always what you’ve done in your life.

 

Paul   03:43

No, I did an MBA, I jumped into the corporate thing. I was working days, nights and weekends and I was really following the shoulds. I was checking the boxes, here’s all the things I should be doing. Here’s something that’s prestigious working for a fortune 50 company, and I really wasn’t happy.

It wasn’t pleasurable. There was about 10% of my job that I loved and the rest of it, I didn’t. And I when I sought out mentors, I went to talk to people, they said, “What did you expect? You’re getting the big bucks, if it were easy, anybody could do it.”  And of course getting married, triggered all of that, as well as like, okay, it’s time to build a family and get a mortgage. 

I was about four years into it, I hadn’t taken any vacation, I was 85 pounds more than I am right now and just burning the candle at both ends.   

 

My Wake-Up Call that Led Me to Life Coaching

 

And, I got a phone call one morning, and it was my father and he was in hysterics, and he’s not that type of guy that freaks out at anything and my brother had shot himself. And that was the moment that made me, you know, it was the worst experience in my life. It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me because it really broke me open and had me looking things a new way. And it had me looking for the right tools and asking different questions and it wasn’t an overnight thing like “Okay, that’s it. I’m a life coach.”

It was a good two years of going to therapy and hiring my own coach about what’s next and learning about personality disorders and all this other stuff that was around me.  The environment I grew up in, and getting back in shape and getting a personal trainer. And at the end of all of that when all the dust had settled, what I had been able to do was I got rid of all the shoulds. All the things I should be doing and should be and should try and when all of that was gone, it was really obvious I was an entrepreneur and a life coach.

And so then, we decided–I was married to an Argentinian–we decided to go back to Argentina. I started a private wine tour company, and I started studying coaching. And this was in 2008 when I launched my coaching practice. I wanted to be able to do it online anywhere in the world, because cultural curiosity is one of my top values of something I love to explore.

But back then, there were no digital nomads. Nobody was doing that. But it worked, and it’s worked all these all these years and I’ve been involved in different entrepreneurial projects. But the whole time I’ve been life coaching and the last six years or so it’s been my only thing, and I just love it so much. I’m like, everything else has been a distraction. This is really who I am and stepped into it full time.

 

Kristen   06:42

So powerful. Thinking about “are you living your life according to what you think you should be doing?” You know, the shoulds, or really following what is in here (pointing to heart) and if I remember correctly, you also left your marriage.

 

Paul   06:58

I did. It was about six or seven years ago. Cultural curiosity was such an important part of my life, and I was married to someone who said, “I never want to leave Buenos Aires. I want to stay here the rest of my life.” And I was like, we didn’t have children, so, I said well, our goals and the things we want are no longer aligned. And I can’t cage myself because this is what you want, and so we split. It was a good marriage for the most part, and it ended in divorce, and then it kind of hit me hard. I’m going to be divorced in my 40s, what’s that going to be like? So much uncertainty, right?

 

Divorced in My 40’s

 

It was awesome. I met so many amazing people. So many, really. And what went away was this whole idea of scarcity. And I think when it comes to relationships, we have this scarcity notion we put so much pressure on every day in every interaction and every text. And because everybody has a “one and only” for each person, but in reality, there’s thousands. It’s who you choose, it’s who you decide to build a life with.

I really didn’t anticipate what  happened next–I didn’t expect to get remarried. While I was not interested in getting married at all, I met somebody who was also not interested in getting remarried. But it was just too good. I was traveling around Europe with my dog, with no intention of settling down at all. And I met the most amazing person who is so like-minded that it just worked out. So, she got a new dog and I got to be a stepdad. So, the next chapter opened up.

 

Kristen   08:53

Which Paul just shared some amazing news with our team before joining, if you feel, share what you said to us about your son?

 

Adoption News

 

Paul   09:03

A few months ago, he was officially adopted. So, he now has my last name, which is also cool, because I was adopted at birth and so he thinks it’s super cool that, hey, we’re both adopted. So, really cool and of course, when we travel internationally, that makes things a lot easier that we don’t have three different last names, right? So, we all have the same last name. So, it makes it nice and easy.

 

Kristen   09:30

I remember being just so inspired by the story and, and really being inspired by how you really created the life that you wanted and dreamt of. And followed what was in here (pointing to heart) and what that caused you to have to kind of “blow up” certain parts of your life. You had to leave the marriage, you had to leave the job, you had to have some necessary endings.

And I think maybe at that time, I felt like there was something that I needed to end maybe, but I wasn’t sure what. And I didn’t want to go there, because it’s so scary to even begin to think about, which is why, when I heard your story, I thought “there’s something here. I think I could learn so much from you and I want to do this together.” And one of the first exercises I remember doing was identifying my own values and I had done this on a company level. 

We wrote about this in Permission to Screw Up identifying our team core values, but I had never really put intention around my own personal values. And you gave me an exercise to think about those and to identify what mine were.

And then I remember also telling you about Spiros and we talked about relationships, and you asked me, “do you feel that you both embody the same values?” Or “do you hold, the same value on the same things, because if not, something that could be really hard later in your marriage in your life.”

And it was such a simple exercise, but really powerful and there were values that I leaned on in the pandemic, what to lead myself to lead the people around me, so maybe share more of why do you start there? and what can someone do if maybe they haven’t identified these values for themselves?

 

Life Coaching First Steps: Identifying Core Values 

 

Paul   11:22

In life coaching I lead with limiting beliefs and core values.  And the reason for that is, if we start with goal setting, and the things that you want to accomplish, and you’re not clear on your values, they could be the wrong things. So, you could do all of this work and all this planning, and all this effort. And it’s all for something that really isn’t you. It’s really not as important to you–it’s somebody else’s values and might be your parents values or what’s prestigious in your culture.

Again, it comes back to the shoulds, and the trouble is the shoulds are screaming in our ears and in our heads. Our own voice is like a whisper, so knowing which is really important is key. And when it comes to values, a lot of people can go just think that honesty and integrity and these other culturally prestigious values are important. Well, no, there’s a handful that are most important to you that when you have a dilemma, that’s the value that wins.

Take this scenario: I promised my kid I was going to go to his baseball game, and this really important thing came up at work that is crucial to the advancement of my career. Well, there’s no correct thing to do in that situation. Objectively there’s no correct thing. But each person, what is the most important thing, what’s going to win out right now? There’s a value there, or you’re making a choice and all a dilemma is, is two values coming crashing into one another.

So, when you have a dilemma, that’s an opportunity to say, if you don’t know your values, you can say, what are the two? What are the two values that I’m struggling with here? Why is this such a dilemma? And why am I having a hard time making a decision? That’s because both things are very important to you. So, you’re starting to uncover what your values are.

 

Kristen   13:34

When we did the exercise, I identified five values and then since we’ve worked together, I’ve continued to think on those five things and I’ve been able to condense them to two and so to kind of help you see what Paul’s talking about here, my two are courage and compassion and whenever I’m faced with any dilemma, I can’t think of a time where my values haven’t shown me the way. If I can think about what the most courageous way is to show up here, the most compassionate way to show up here. I know that I will have an answer if I think that way.

But sometimes, it’s hard because like you said, they’re so intertwined. Sometimes the courageous thing to do may hurt somebody else may not make you feel so great, right and because compassion is another goal of mine. I think the hardest dilemmas for me are the ones where it’s going to affect other people, and I’ve come to realize that even when something will affect someone, you can still be compassionate in your approach.

 

Paul   14:39

Sometimes the difficult information, sometimes the difficult conversation, that’s going to hurt somebody is the right thing to do and it’s hard when your values are up there. But sometimes that is the most compassionate thing to do, it is the hard thing.

 

Take a Step Back

 

Kristen   14:57

Yeah, and so I would say if you feel like you’re faced with a decision that you’re having trouble with, don’t make an impulsive decision. Stop, reflect on it. Think about it. Think about what’s most important to you–what outcome is most important to you? How do you want to show up in this situation, and we make better decisions that way? We make decisions that are in integrity with ourselves, when we think about it that way.

 

Paul   15:25

I like to say when in doubt, do nothing. Because we’re in this “go do it,” take action culture, but sometimes not doing anything is better. Take a step back, take a breather, because the action you want to take may seriously affect the end result. What do you want? Do nothing for a little bit.

 

Kristen   15:50

Yeah, so you said you start with values, and then you said limiting beliefs? Tell us about beliefs.

 

Life Coaching First Steps: Self-Limiting Beliefs

 

Paul   15:57

Beliefs manifest physically. So, I’m not a New Agey life coach–I’m very pragmatic. But it’s in our bodies, right? It’s somewhere in our throat, or our chest or somewhere in our mid-section. So, those situations where something in the middle of your body feels heavy, or tight, or whatever, there’s a belief behind that. I think we did the exercise where I picked the two most common negative beliefs that people have about themselves. Those two are, “I’m not good enough” and “I’m not important.” So to anybody watching this, if you just say that out loud to yourself, what happens?

Just pay attention to what your body does, forget what your brain argues, forget that narrator in your head. Just say it and see if something happens in your body, and if it does, Congratulations!  You’re human!  But what that means is that you’ve been carrying that around with you a very long time. It’s basically just a cognitive bias. It comes from something usually associated with our parents when we were four or five years old. It could be something as simple as you have a sibling that was sick and I’m not good enough, obviously.

Because my parents are paying attention there and then you’re in first grade and they’re choosing teams for kickball and you’re the last one to get chosen, then you go up there it is, see that I’m not good enough and then you don’t speak up in a meeting in your 20s because you don’t have anything good enough to say,, and you still have the same feeling in the middle of your chest that you had when they didn’t pick you for kickball.

So, it’s there’s methods of unraveling that and enlightening that and that’s to your point about my picture of the hot air balloon and the sandbags. It’s that if your beliefs are distorting the way you view reality and the way you view yourself. So, if you don’t work with that first, if you don’t determine your values first, you’re not getting clean information in your reality. So, the goal you’re going to be setting are probably going to be the wrong things.

Because you can become a billionaire entrepreneur and cure blindness in children all over the world, and still feel like you’re not good enough because you never worked on the belief. It’s not about the outside evidence, the brain will reject the outside evidence of all the good stuff, and only focus on that one thing that you did wrong out of hundreds or 1000s of good things.

 

Kristen   18:34

I remember that exercise you actually had me say these out loud, I’m not good enough. I have to be perfect, and you would ask, okay, did you feel anything?  I remember being not so humble. The first few I didn’t feel anything. I’m like, yep, I don’t think I have any of these. You know, we kept doing it and then I had so many: “I need money to make me happy.” “It’s my job to make other people happy.”

I just remember a time I felt I don’t belong and that was so huge, not only for me, but for our team. Because when I started to see that, there’s beliefs I’ve been carrying that I haven’t really realized. I’ve just taken these as reality. I didn’t realize I could change these beliefs about myself, and I started to realize that. Then I thought, “wait, as a team!” What does everyone else have? And then we started to do our limiting beliefs work together and now we teach that work, right? And you actually had calls with each member of our team about that very topic.

 

Paul   19:33

Beliefs, they only survive when they’re absolutely 100% true, completely black and white. This is absolutist thinking, and when you can crack the door open to the possibility that it might not be true, it starts to fall apart. The belief just starts to fall apart, the sandbag starts to leak.

 

Kristen   19:55

So, how do you begin to challenge the belief?

 

Identifying and Challenging the Belief 

 

Paul   19:59

Well, first off, you need to recognize there is, right? Like, to you to your point? When do I use absolute speech? When do I say “every time”, “always”, “never?” There’s something in there, and it’s important to question it, and using that as an indicator of “wait, what’s behind that?” Because there aren’t many absolutes in this world, everything’s gray.

So, when we are super firm, that’s a way to kind of be like, “Is that true?” Is that really 100% true, 100% of the time? And that’s where it lies, but for so many people it’s so hard to see, because as to your point, you said you accept these as absolute truths about life.

 

Kristen   20:54

Yeah, which is the power of a talented life coach to help you see what you can’t! 

 

Paul   20:58

Exactly. I need people to help me to see what I can’t. So, yes, we can’t see our own things as easily. It’s always better to be able to talk to somebody who can ask those uncomfortable questions.

 

Kristen   21:15

Even if you don’t have the means to hire a life coach, your friends could serve this life coaching role for you people who know you well, right? It doesn’t have to be. I think the point is, you need an external thought partner with this kind of work, because it’s really hard to see on your own.

 

Paul   21:31

Yes, it’s very difficult. I mean, it could be somebody that you take walks with in the park and say, “Okay, today we’re going to ask each other some questions.” Start there, right?

 

Taming Your Gremlin 

 

Kristen   21:42

I remember when we were doing that work, he recommended a book to me called Taming Your Gremlin. I remember I had a little bit of time off, and I was at the beach reading, Taming Your Gremlin in the sand and it was like, these little gremlins are on our shoulder. Each one had a name, I remember one was “the commander,” and it’s like, the commander sounds like this. It’s all the things that we’re really saying to ourselves, and really helped me because it was like, that’s not me talking. That’s my Gremlin.

 

Paul   22:09

Yes-it’s a concept from cognitive behavioral therapy of “third party-ing” the narrator in your head. And Rick Carson, the author, he makes it really light and fun. That’s definitely more like my philosophy. Things don’t have to be so serious all the time. I love that he would have his patients draw their gremlins. He would actually have them create them and by third-partying it and thinking “I’m not this horrible person for having these thoughts or beating myself up. It’s just my gremlin.”

You don’t have to listen to the Gremlin all the time, but you can acknowledge that it’s there. You can’t kill it. It’s just going to be there. It’s just these voices in your head, but you’re the listener. You’re the person who decides.

 

Kristen   23:09

You just made me remember the team. We drew our Gremlins. It was so cool and it was so funny to see what everyone drew.  Like you said, this kind of work is hard and we can keep it light sometimes, like this exercise–as a way to humanize. Okay, we all have these, and like you said, you get to decide if you want to listen to this Gremlin that you have. The Gremlin will talk, but you don’t have to listen.

 

Paul   23:38

Could be a great Halloween activity. Everyone could make them into masks.

 

Writing Your Eulogy

 

Kristen   23:43

Get your Gremlin a name. I love it. Okay, let’s shift to the hardest assignment you gave me in our life coaching journey, which was writing my eulogy. Tell us about that.

 

Paul   24:01

Well, it’s pretty simple. Not easy, but it’s pretty simple. What do you want the people closest to you to say about you when you die? But then the obvious follow up question after you write your eulogy is, am I living up to this person, and how can I take steps to become this person? And the good thing about using it as a eulogy is you’re already dead. It’s already done and so it takes away all of the, “how I’m viewed” and how I look? It’s just your ego, right? So, all that stuff is off the table.

So, it’s really about being real, and the people speaking at your eulogy are the people that matter. Again, that can also point to your values, that’s also an exercise that can help to clarify what’s most important. Then you have the compass pointed in the direction of what type of person do you want to be? Are you living that?

 

Kristen   25:11

It was so hard. I procrastinated on it and then I remember googling other people’s eulogy that like, what am I doing? I get copies of these eulogies. You know the best way I could think to do it was to separate it into categories. Like, here’s what I would like Spiros to say, and Ed and my future children to say, and my friends and our team. But what the AHA was for me is that I had no trouble filling out the work part of it, like what was my legacy in a professional sense, but for the rest of it, I didn’t have much to say.

And that was a red flag, like “Wait, how am I living my life?” and this was a time where I was definitely working over my capacity. Definitely burnout mode. And I think writing the eulogy was so painful because it made me face the fact that if I continue living my life this way, I definitely am going to end up at the end of my life with regret.

 

Memento Mori

 

Paul   26:12

At the end of day, everything we’re doing we’re either building more of the life we want or we’re building regret. Every action. So it’s just being aware of that obviously you need clarity first otherwise your way I What do I do but and that’s a precedence but it is that and the Stoics they have this memento mori that they say and it’s remembered that right and that I think is our greatest teacher and even my story I told the beginning of this in my brother’s death was that wake up call for me. I call it making friends with Death because nothing is life and death except life and death.

Everything else is just experiments and screwing up sometimes and it’s okay but just keep experimenting, keep trying and keep stretching and keep going and this just isn’t that important. If it fails, if you make mistakes, it doesn’t matter. So, it’s not going to kill you. So, I love that concept of contemplation of death and really putting that at peace of knowing you’re going to die. It sounds serious but it’s not. It actually lightens everything when you have this full acceptance of what death is and that it is coming and so what do you want to do if you’re not living in now, then when? Someday is now.

 

Kristen   28:01

Right and not doing something not changing something is a choice, it’s a choice to change and it’s a choice to not change and when I wrote the eulogy, which by the way, is in the chat, if you want to read my eulogy that I made it public because accountability is important to me and after I finished the exercise, which I took it as this is, the person I aspired to be, because I recognize that what I was writing, some of the things aren’t true right now. But I want to be this, I want people to say this, this is the impact I want to have on people.

So, after I wrote it, I actually send it to the people I care about most of my life, I said, this is exercise I did, this is what I came up with for myself, and I want you to hold me accountable to this, this is the person I want to be and if you feel like I’m not being this person, I really want to know and that was very vulnerable.

I remember having so much trouble and we had a call, you’re like, how’s it going, and you’re like, don’t take it too seriously, you’re dead, remember, and I was like lighten it up and then that was like the spark that led me to, but highly recommend and we talked a lot about big days and break weeks and, this would be something if you want to have a sick day for yourself, great exercise, write your notes, see what you come up with.

 

Showing Up for Loved Ones 

 

Speaking of deaths, one thing that we talked about a lot is my fear of death, I have an immense fear of losing people that I loved and to the point where it was, and I think it’s mainly shows up in my relationship with my parents, to where I overcompensate, like when I visit them, I’m like, when’s the last time you went to the doctor? What do they say?

“Oh, let’s look at what’s in the fridge. Oh, we need some more fruits and vegetables. Oh, let’s go for a walk. How many steps does it say you’ve gotten on your fitbit?” And I remember talking about this, because every time I would go home to my parents, it felt like it didn’t feel good, and I will never forget what you said to me out.

Now, remember this, you said, “If you had guests in your home, and the moment they got to your home, they’re asking you, let me see how many steps your pedometer has registered for the day, what’s in your fridge, we should go for a walk, would you want to invite those guests back to your home?” Like that’d be terrible. No, I was doing it every time and my parents do remember that?

 

Paul   30:19

I remember and that’s a simple thing, when you have people you care about or there’s some conflict or discomfort or whatever is happening? Turn it around. Okay, how am I acting? What if I would, somebody just turn it around and see how that would be and you can see how ridiculous it can be. So, your Gremlin was alive, the commander was going into the house, and mobilized them.

 

Kristen   30:50

My parents like it’s just the sound when you’re here, and after talking to you about this, and really unpacking it and realizing that it was stemming from fear. I think what I was unsure of is why do I show up this way with that? Why do I feel this need to tell them what to do and what it was stemming from fear and then I explored the fear? Learn to like, move, past that fear?

Like you said, make friends with the fear and then really try to think about how I would want a guest in my home to treat me and that’s like how I showed up and it totally changed my relationship with my parents like, but it was way more fun to visit them. Because I didn’t feel like I had to play that role and they enjoyed my visit a lot more.

 

Paul   31:33

Well, you came there with this burden that you had to take care of them and, like, from a place of love, but it just wasn’t as much fun. You know, the relationship can’t flow when it comes from that direction, right?

Life Coaching & Healthy Boundaries 

Kristen   31:50

I think this is connected to boundaries, because I mean, boundaries show up a lot and talk about family dynamics. Really, in any relationship. What do you do? I’m sure you coach people a lot on this subject? What are some high-level thoughts you have on boundaries?

 

Paul   32:08

I love the way Brene Brown communicates boundaries. So, I’m going to borrow some of her right to paraphrase some of her stuff. 

[phone rings] A phone is ringing, can you believe that? An actual landline! It’s crazy. 

So, boundaries are very simple. It’s what’s okay and what’s not okay. Again, simple, not easy to do, and I think when we communicate boundaries, or we start to understand boundaries, we kind of become boundary fascist and this is not acceptable. This is not acceptable. This thing you did. I’m not going to have people like that in my life and when we start putting up this wall, we forget to say what is acceptable.

So, they really understand where the boundary is. Because otherwise, you’re just like, well Geez, it’s like a landmine, why do this? You know the person is? and so this and this if you want to do.

 

Kristen   33:28

Really bad, healthy. We’re going to pause on that for a moment. What questions do you have about coaching in general? Things that you hope that we wouldn’t, but put them in the chat? If you have them? We’re going to leave them in. Okay, back to boundaries, it froze. You said, landmines, what is acceptable?

 

Paul   33:54

Yeah, so then they really understand where that is. They can see this is, and so they can actually see where the boundary is. So, even if there is that dysfunctional person or life and we all have dysfunctional people in our lives, you can at least know you’ve communicated it well and as they continue to cross the boundary, then you take a boundary to the next level.

 

Kristen   34:21

What does that look like? What does it look like to take it to the next level?

 

Finding Healthy Boundaries

 

Paul   34:29

Things like actual physical, no contact, maybe, or blocking them or whatever needs to be done. I find, though, that sometimes, when you have somebody that continually crosses the boundary, sometimes just asking a question can keep them away. 

Because dysfunctional people really, a lot of self-absorbed people, I should say, they really like to put you on the spot. They will ask questions to make you uncomfortable. But if you’re explaining you’re losing, because that’s what they want, they want you to be explaining yourself for the different things you do and hit tapping into your insecurities. 

So, if you can turn it around and say, how do you mean exactly, you get very curious, and then they have to explain their intention of whatever they want you to be where they’re putting on the spot and then, especially if it’s in front of other people, if it’s one on one sessions, where a person is just going to attack. But when it’s in front of other people just getting very curious, why is this information important to you? How do you mean exactly? About what you’re saying, I’m interested in your feedback, but how do you mean that they do that enough that they start to kind of keep their distance?

 

Life Coaching for Co-Parenting

 

Kristen   35:55

This work helped me so much in the co-parenting relationship I have with PBS mom, and this is no secret: co-parenting is hard, and it’s been a challenging relationship and I would say, today, we are in the best place we’ve ever been in our relationship, I hope that it can be even better and where I was aspired to be is not in a place, we are in a better place. 

But I’m considering where we started and where we are now. It’s so much better and I had to learn to show up differently in that dynamic to set boundaries, especially even between like Spiros NDBS like, recognizing my role in that dynamic and setting boundaries for like, here’s what I will participate in and here’s where I will not and like, this is okay, this isn’t okay and that was a game changer for me. Because I just never thought about that and what you said, replying with curiosity? 

No, it’s huge. Like, what do you mean by that? and how do you mean, and I think disarming and also, I think there are certain people that I’m not saying this about us, Mom, but I think there are certain people who intentionally dig to like, tap your insecurity.

 

How a Life Coach Deals with Narcissists

 

Paul   37:14

Yes, and when you have an emotional reaction there, that’s like crack for them. It’s the best thing ever, even in the positive or the negative. So, there are also people that can also be very charming, and if they make you blush, they’re like, I’ve got this person hooked, and understanding that and a lot of work to do on oneself, if you have somebody in your life that does that. 

But the main thing is, they are not going to change even though in all the Hollywood movies, the bad person that the end understands and changes. That doesn’t happen in real life. They’re not going to and the expectation that they will change by my behavior or the way I speak to them or explain something to them.

 

Kristen   38:02

It’s like maybe they will change but it’s not in your control like–you can’t control them to change; there’s no amount of explaining that makes this person change, so the only thing that’s in your control is how you show up and your expectations and your mindset. 

And that was a game changer and I remember reading a lot of books that you recommended around that subject just like I get a lot of questions about how do you navigate someone who’s a narcissist and I didn’t know how to respond to that and there’s a lot out there what is a good book if someone has a narcissist in their life? What is a narcissist let’s start with that–what is a narcissist and what’s a good book?

Books for Dealing With Narcissists 

Paul   38:42

A narcissist is a self-absorbed personality. Somebody who has in general a total and there’s degrees of all of this but the consummate narcissist, the definition will be somebody that lacks empathy. They’re manipulative, again, they really get off on manipulating other people’s emotions. They can go from attacker to victim in two seconds. So, they’ll say something offensive, and you’ll defend yourself and like, I can’t believe you said such horrible things. 

So, they’re very difficult to deal with and in certain situations, they can be dangerous if they have a position of power. But most of the time, they’re pretty harmless. If we learn to kind of cut the wires on our buttons that they’re pushing, right and so a couple of good books: one is by Sandy Hotchkiss called Why is it Always About You? And there’s another one if people have parents who are narcissists, probably the best book out there by Nina Brown. It’s Children of the Self-Absorbed.

 

Kristen   39:57

I read that one–good! My parents aren’t narcissists, though! Mommy, Daddy I  love you!

 

Paul   40:04

There’s so much good stuff in there. She has another one Loving the Self-Absorbed, so people that are in relationships with a narcissist as well and then another one that again, this is my recommendation that there’s maybe bigger ones more popular. There’s another one called Trapped in the Mirror for people who had parents who are narcissists by Elan Golomb and that one’s a little bit more clinical and heavy but it’s really well done. 

The funny thing is, you hear a lot of people talk about Narcissists and how they wreak havoc in people’s lives, but they’re so predictable once you understand and you get the way they act. It’s like they’re pretty harmless. Again, if they’re not in some position of power.

 

Kristen   40:56

Yeah, and two things I learned and just like, so I think the narcissism topic comes up a lot around feedback because the questions I get in feedback classes are how do you give feedback to someone who’s a narcissist I keep getting feedback behavior doesn’t change what do I do if my boss is a narcissist? 

You know, these are the kinds of questions and in my readings, what I learned is that if someone’s a narcissist, they have a very low self-worth and the narcissism is to protect so that nobody sees what they really feel inside and that was huge like the person is acting like they have all this power and all this but really deep down not how they feel.

And the other thing that I learned is that I can’t remember who said this. It’s a pretty famous idea that our enemies can be our greatest teachers. The people who we have the most difficult relationships with that press our buttons the most. There’s a lot to learn about what buttons they are pressing and why what are these buttons?

 

Paul   41:55

Whose buttons are they? They’re yours.

 

Kristen   42:00

Nobody else’s buttons. They’re yours. You have to figure out what’s happening here.

 

Paul   42:05

When you have peace with a parent for example, who’s in our family system when you have peace in that relationship, not that you’re going to hold hands and go on long walks, or anything like that. But when you can have peace, all of your relationships are easier, all of them. And the other one is, another thought I have on that is sometimes people want to get even with the narcissist, they deserve to be punished or they’re doing this illegal thing they should.

They’re already living in hell. Remember that, that their self-worth is so low, and they have all this bravado, like you said to kind of cover it up. They’re so afraid of being exposed. You would not want to be in that head. So, let go of this idea of payback or getting even, because they’re already in an awful place.

 

Kristen   43:04

So much energy wasted, it will be painful for you. Okay, let’s switch gears; to everyone on here knows that I love assessments around the context of learning more about ourselves taking what resonates. I don’t like assessments that are, you’re this. So, this means this is who you are, I know you score like that, I think it’s up to us to interpret our own results and take and you taught me about an assessment that I had never heard of, tell us.

[BOSI DNA Assessment discussion]

I can’t believe we are almost an hour, thank you so much. Isn’t Paul amazing? Just like even just talking to you now like I just brings me back to all the life coaching work we did together, and it was so huge. You changed my life! You 1,000% change my life and the work we did together was the spark of transitioning Student Maid. And really building a life that I felt in here (pointing to heart) but wasn’t quite sure how to make it external. So thank you! I’m sure there are people here who want to stay in touch with you; maybe want to hire Paul as a life coach, so how can people get in touch with you?

 

Paul   52:09

Same website for the last 15 years it’s www.confidecoaching.com. So “confide” like to confide in somebody.

 

Kristen   52:18

You’ll know you’re at the right website. If you see the balloon with the sandbags falling out.

 

Paul   52:22

It’s not there anymore. But I do have a video that explains that I have a video that kind of explains that concept further down on the page.

 

Kristen   52:31

On the page. So, thank you so much.

 

Paul   52:37

I’m honored, really.

 

Kristen   52:40

You’re just the best and the opportunist in me cannot leave this live without telling you about our latest opportunity. So, we just launched in our R&R retreat, which is happening December 9 and inspired by my break weeks, inspired by the break weeks, we started taking as a team inspired by the in person retreats that we had before the pandemic. This is a day to pause, get away from the day to day get away from the noise and really reflect recalibrate, energize your mind re-center just get really clear on how we want to enter a 2022. It’s taking place December 9, from 11 to 4 Eastern on zoom.

Tickets are $149 and because we so appreciate this amazing community that comes to our live every week, we would love to give you 10% off so if you are interested, there’s a code live all caps that will give you 10% off your ticket and we would encourage you to secure that soon if you’d like to come just because when we’re sold out and we expect it to be a sellout day so hope to see you hope you’ll take some R&R with us. Excited to see everyone next Wednesday and Paul, thank you again so much.

 

Paul   53:57

You’re very welcome. Keep doing what you’re doing. You’re going to have the best eulogy ever.

 

Kristen   54:03

Thank you. Okay, bye everyone. Bye Paul. Have a great day.

 

p.s. – What’s in the way of your living your best life? Book a FREE trial session and let’s have a chat.